Interview with Antonio Alberto Rocha Oliveira, Agricultural Attaché Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Food Supply Embassy of The Federative Republic of Brazil to The Russian Federation

DN: Antonio, could you tell what are your responsibilities?

Antonio: In the Embassy of the Federative Republic of Brazil the name of my position is agricultural attaché. But some people call it agricultural counsellor or agrarian counsellor.

The duties of agricultural attachés are broad and complex, reflecting the diversity of technical issues involved in the internationalization of agriculture. Some of the most important tasks include the search for better conditions for access to agribusiness products in the relevant foreign countries (Russia is relevant country) and studies of their agricultural policies and legislation that are of interest to Brazilian agriculture. The agricultural attaché also deal with sanitary and phytosanitary issues, Brazil’s participation in events that discuss issues of interest to agribusiness and the monitoring of cooperation activities in the area of agriculture, including environmental, hunger eradication and rural development policies. This project in Brazil begins in 2010.

From 2010 to 2014 my predecessor, that was our colleague here, he spent 4 years in Russia. I arrived here in 2015 in June. Next month it will be 2 years here in Russia.

Brazil has 8 agricultural attaché spread around the world – here, China, Japan, South Africa, the United States, Argentina and they do 2 missions in the world trade organization Geneva and in the European Union.

DN: Do the agricultural producers of Brazil somehow communicate with Russian producers or maybe with Russian media?

Antonio: It’s not common, not frequent. The communication between Russian producers and Brazilian producers or the media occurs at some specific events, exhibitions like ProdExpo, WorldFood Moscow and some missions. Some Brazilian producers come to Russia, I meet the counterpartners and the Russians as well go to Brazil.

DN: What kind of Russian products may go to Brazil? What products from Russia are you interested in?

Antonio: In the agricultural sector we buy from Russia mainly fertilizers but we are negotiating now to buy wheat and fish. Brazil is out sufficient because we are a tropical country, we cannot produce enough wheat to feed our people and we have to buy it from other countries like Argentina, the United States and Canada.

We are negotiating to buy wheat, fish and some sorts of meat as well.

DN: Meat? Really?

Antonio: Yes, only certain sorts because Brazil sells to Russia fresh meat, that’s right. But we are negotiating. Essentially, two months ago the veterinary mission from Brazil came to Russia to inspect some meat producers, specially high quality beef.

DN: To your point of view what kind of experience do you think may be more relevant for Russian dairy industry? What kind of experience may be interesting from Brazil to Russia?

Antonio: As you know Brazil is very famous in the agricultural sector. We have developed a lot of technologies in this area. There are a number of issues on which the Brazilian experience would be extremely useful to Russian farmers, such as grain production, plant and animal breeding, animal health and animal welfare, organic production, and more. Special issues are related to no-till farming systems and integration of crop-livestock-forestry systems (ICLF).  

Brazilian farmers pioneered “no-till” agriculture, in which the soil is not ploughed nor the crop harvested at ground level. Rather, it is cut high on the stalk and the remains of the plant are left to rot into a mat of organic material. Next year's crop is then planted directly into the mat, retaining more nutrients in the soil. And I think at the moment with the very overwhelming technologies there will be integration of forest, agriculture and livestock integration system) the fields are used alternately for crops and livestock but threads of trees are also planted in between the fields, where cattle can forage. This, it turns out, is the best means yet devised for rescuing degraded pasture lands. The system increases the intensity of land use and of rotating crops and livestock so as to feed more people without cutting down the forest. With these are technologies our farmers can cooperate with Russian farmers.

DN: Could you explain how collaboration between business and scientific sphere is organized in your country?

Antonio: This question is giving me a lot of proud to answer. Because I’m a researcher. I work for the Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation - Embrapa. This institution belongs to our Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Food Supply.

Embrapa’s mission is to generating and promoting knowledge, science-based solutions and technologies for Brazilian agriculture. It is the largest agricultural R&D agency in Latin America in terms of both staff numbers and expenditure. The organization is headquartered in the capital Brasilia and operates 46 decentralized units localized throughout the country, in all Brazilian biomes. Its decentralized units consist of research centers specialized in animal or plants products, ecoregional centers, centers dedicated to basic issues and service units.

Embrapa has an integrated system with agrarian universities and other research institutions.

Embrapa is in Portugese (em - empresa – it’s company, bra – Brazilian, brasileiro, pa - Pesquisa Agropecuária – agricultural research). In English it is Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation but Embrapa is a logo.

170 liters per head

DN: Could you tell about export of your country? To which countries do you export your dairy and meat products?

Antonio: We started to export dairy but we are out sufficient in dairy products, we buy dairy products but our import is decreasing this year. Three years ago we imported a lot of dairy products from Argentina, Uruguay and the Netherlands. But year by year we are improving our production and decreasing import. We have started to export as well.

The Brazilian population is 202 million inhabitants. Each inhabitant consumes per year 170 liters of milk; it’s a very high consumption. China consumes only 60 liters per year per capita. We are the 4th producer of dairy products in the world but we have to feed our people. We try to export but first of all we have to fill the internal market. But we export to Russia. Also our main buyers are Venezuela, Angola, Algeria, and Saudi Arabia.

A few years we started to export to Russia, mainly cheese and butter. Because it is difficult to find here some dairy products in Brazil that we use like powder milk, condensed milk – in Brazil are very common. We export a lot of powder milk, a little fluid milk, more powder milk and condensed milk.

DN: To which countries?

Antonio: To Venezuela, Angola, Algeria, Saudi Arabia. There are 4 largest producers: the United States, India, China, Brazil. And as I said condensed milk, cream, butter. Yes, Venezuela is our main buyer, Algeria, Cuba, Saudi Arabia.

DN: What does Brazil export to Russia?

Antonio: To Russia we export cheese and butter. We can export but I think Russia doesn’t buy too much milk powder. For Russia the main products are cheese and butter.

DN.: Antonio, what are the country’s indicators of agricultural sector over the last year?

Antonio: Brazilian farmers have good crop profitability, because the crops are sold in dollar which remains stronger against Brazilian Real. And the Brazilian crops increase and become more competitive, that’s why we don’t have too many problems, because we sell in dollars and when the producers receive local currency, and as the dollar is stronger than Real, they have profitability. This trend is promising after it was low in 2016.

The whole world has a crisis because the price was low: in 2016 we were 2.3% down compared to 2015. But Brazilian agriculture is predicted to see an increase of 14.2% of crop harvest this year because mainly we feed our cows with grain produced in Brazil, corn and soyabean. And this year we’ll have a very high level of production of these two kinds of grain. The price of the feed of the animal will go down.

The biggest commercial bovine herd

DN.: Antonio, do you have any statistics about dairy sphere? How many farms do you have in Brazil? How many cows do you have? What is the production? Do you have these figures?

Antonio: Brazil has the second large bovine herd in the world. India is the first but it’s not commercial. Brazil has the biggest commercial herd in the world. We surpassed India. There are approximately this year I just correct we have 2053.2 million of cattle in Brazil. 10%- is dairy cattle,  20 million of dairy cattle.

We produce more meat and export it.  By the end of 2016 we have 20 million cows, cattle, we have 1.3 million of producers, we have 2000 companies respected by the Ministry of agriculture. Our production was more than 54 billion liters per year. This puts Brazil in the fourth position on milk production in the world.

DN: Do you have data about production of dairy cattle in your country?

Antonio: Brazil is a very huge country; we have different climates and situations and different production systems. In the south and south-east of Brazil they use more technologies. The productivity of the United States is better, about 8000 kg per cow per year, Russia is about 4000, Brazil is half of Russia 1.5 thousand kg per cow per year on average.

Brazil has five regions north, north-east, center-west, south-east and south. In the south our productivity is high, in the north it’s very low. On average the productivity is 2000 litres. We are better than India but we below China, Russia, Germany and France. As I said Brazil is a tropical country and our herd is not pure bred. In Europe they use black and white, Holstein. But in Brazil we cross Holstein with Zebu from India. Because in Brazil dairy is not the main purpose, meat is the main purpose. The cow is used for milk and meat as well. That’s decreases the productivity by cow. And the conditions – the tropics are very hot. But we try to improve. I told you about institution Embrapa, it has a specific dairy cattle research center to improve genetics of the cows.

DN: It’s very interesting, you know because I supposed that Russia has the lowest production in the world.

Antonio: No, Russia is lower than the United States, Germany, the Netherlands and France but above Brazil, India, China. It has a good position.

DN: Could you tell what forms of farms are popular in Brazil? Are they family farms or mega farms or some other?

Antonio: In Brazil in dairy sector we have a lot of family farms, as I said in the north and north-east family farms predominate. In the south and south-east, in the center of Brazil they have mega farms. But the majority is family farm. But as I said we have different conditions. Sometimes farmers have to milk cows by hand. In some cases they have only 2 cows on their small farms. In other conditions in the south everything is technical, they use technologies and modern equipment.

DN: How many cows do they usually have on a family farm? 100 or less?

Antonio: There are different systems. I think the medium size of the farm is between 20 and a hundred. A mega farm you cannot count. But in the family farm between 21 and 100.

Farming prestigious

DN: What do you think, is it prestigious for a farmer to be engaged in dairy? Because as you said they are mostly mid farms and it’s probably rather difficult to be engaged in dairy farming in Brazil.

Antonio: I think, it’s a tradition. Because in Brazil in the dairy sector, we have an activity in 99% of the cities. All over Brazil you  find dairy cattle, small quantities or big quantities.

In Brazil we consume a lot of milk, mainly the infants. The adults decrease their consumption because they are worried about the fat, I mean the elder people. But they need calcium. They need more milk. In Brazil we are used to drinking milk very day. Coffee with milk for breakfast. We are the biggest producer and exporter of orange juice. But we don’t drink too much orange juice as milk. But for breakfast everybody drinks coffee with milk.

These people are used to growing a cow to put the milk on his own small property.

DN: And if I am a farmer in Brazil how is it organized – the processing company comes to me to pick up the milk by themselves or are there some kinds of cooperatives. How is this system organized?

Antonio: A long time ago the main collectors were cooperatives. In Brazil a cooperative played a very important role in the dairy sector. As you can see here in the table the biggest companies in dairy in Brazil are cooperatives, they are multinational from Switzerland, from France. Now the biggest companies, the mega companies they increase their participation in the Brazilian market.

At the beginning of the 21st century the cooperatives were everywhere. People produce milk and they collect it. Now as you can see here there is collection, reception in thousand liters. The biggest reception is at this company. But the cooperatives play a very important role.

DN: If we speak about processing companies, what companies are more popular in Brazil? Are they domestic companies or multinational companies?

Antonio: The dairy market has many companies competing for their market, including multinational and national companies and cooperatives. In 2016 the first place in the ranking remained with Switzerland Nestle but French Lactalis grew up and it’s pretty closer than Nestle. But the Brazilian cooperative is not far away: Itambe, Laticinios Bela Vista. Also we have Aurora- it is a Brazilian company.

DN: Antonio, what about small processing companies, do they exist on the market?

Antonio: Yes, they exist. But it’s difficult for them as big companies try to buy them. Big companies are based in the south and south-east of Brazil. In the north and north-east predominate the small companies, producers and processors. These companies here are in the center of Brazil.

DN: You know, I’m asking this because we see that for consumers there is such a tendency. They prefer not to consume such mass products from big companies. They prefer to taste something very unique, i.e. unique cheese or unique yogurts. Is it the same in Brazil?

Antonio: We have some cheese in Brazil that is valuable because the production is limited. The demand is high. There are a lot of people who prefer to buy a specific dairy product because there is something different in them compared to uniformed production.

Brazilian Dairy Association

DN: And what about associations, do they exist on Brazilian market? Associations for producers and processing companies?

Antonio: This cooperative is an association for producers. But there are associations for processing. They are called Brazilian Dairy Association. Here we have three big companies, entities and associations as well. Three associations: Brazilian Cheese Association, Brazilian milk and meat cooperative company Association, Brazilian UHT Association.

DN: What is the mission of these Associations?

Antonio: Their mission is to promote and try to get better conditions, to solve some problems. In Brazil we have a lot of problems with transportation, infrastructure. They push the government to do some things.

They are representatives. Because it wouldn’t be good if every company goes to the government to solve the problems. They promote the image of the products in different countries to sell and get better conditions for the internal products.

DN: There is also such an association, organization APEX Brazil. What is the role of this Association?

Antonio: APEX Brazil belongs to Brazilian Government. Two years ago they belonged to the Ministry of industry and trade. Now they are transferred to the Ministry of foreign relations.

APEX Brazil is a very important partner for these companies not only for agricultural products, for everything that Brazil exports. Their mission is to promote the Brazilian products, transport, airplanes and agriculture.

DN: If we speak about the development of milk production in your country, is there any chance that it may rise these numbers, can the production in Brazil be more than 1500 liters per one cow?

Antonio: That is the objective of the research institution Embrapa. These the factors how we may increase production: cow nutrition, genetics, sanitary equipment, processing plants and labour. And this has created competitive conditions for Brazilian quality as well as milk price and by-products.

Government’s support

DN: You have a unique country because you could not implement experience i.e. from Holland or from Ireland. Where did you receive your experience about genetic problems, about nutrition where do Brazilian farmers and processing companies receive it?

Antonio: Embrapa has a Labex (Exterior Laboratory) in some very strategical countries. We have Labex in the Netherlands (in Wageningen), we have a Labex in the United Kingdom, in the United States, in China, in Japan.

In April we had a meeting between the Russian and Brazilian authorities. And the Russian authorities talked about Labex.

We brought the genetics from India, Zebu-G species and from the Netherlands the Holstein and we crossed them. We call the species Girolando (oland – it’s for Holland). Girolando is the main producing cows in Brazil, it’s a hybrid.

DN: Does the government support the dairy industry in your country?

Antonio: Yes, there is a support. Mainly they provide credits and give assistance to improve the genetics. They increase the support from Brazilian government, low production costs and some reasons behind the increase in production. The Brazilian government also supports the milk industry, genetics and breeding of cows.

DN: How do they assist? They assist by investing some money in this industry?

Antonio: Brazil provides credits to buy equipment, to improve the conditions, they provide credits. But this is one support.

They have to pay the interest, but they provide the necessary credits and on the other side the Brazilian government do the experiments, the trials in the farms. This is the work in the labs and they use the farms to test the feed, the adaptation of the cows, the production. It is not one year. It is three-five years because it has to start from the very beginning the new hybrids to grow, to produce.

Brazilian challenges

DN: To your point of view, what kind of challenges does the dairy industry face in your country?

Antonio: We have a lot of challenges. Mainly, infrastructure. We have a problem in transporting the products because we are a very huge country. The Brazilian transport is mainly by trucks. We don’t have train transportation. Another challenge is sanitation because some diseases and parasites they have to be controlled.

DN: What are the tendencies in consumption?

Antonio: In Brazil milk is drunk not only by children but by adults as well. There are a lot of dairy products. We produce everything from milk.

The consumption and the production of yogurt is increasing. But everybody knows about using low-fat milk for health and there is high calcium content. That is why doctors recommend to adults to consume it. Because mainly adult women they have decalcification. Calcium in the bones of elder people needs replacement. In the beginning I said that elder people are worried about fat, cholesterol in the whole milk. That’s why in Brazil we have now skimmed milk. It is still rich in calcium but without fat. Because calcium is not in the fat. That is a tendency for health to use not whole milk but skimmed milk without fat.

Children have to drink whole milk and sportsmen. Fat-free cottage cheese contains a lot of protein especially popular among those who are engaged in sports. This is a tendency.

My family and I love yogurt. We consume yogurt every day.

DN: Antonio, if we speak about collaboration between two countries, Brazil and Russia, how do you estimate this collaboration? Is it positive or not?

Antonio: Russian agriculture increases year by year. I think the core cooperation between Russia and Brazil in dairy area is possible. Because Brazil is a tropical country that has an experience in genetics, as I said. That is where I think we can collaborate with the Russians. Brazil has a lot of experience in genetics, in how to breed cows. We can convert the experience of Brazilian experts and companies as breed selection, food and feed, veterinarian issues and the others. I think here a very strong collaboration is possible.

DN: I suppose that it was rather good opportunity for Brazilian companies to penetrate the Russia dairy market when sanctions and embargo were implemented. I suppose that since this year, since 2014, there was quite a huge increase of exports to Russia.

Antonio: It’s true. That’s the circumstances. In September 2014, because the embargo was imposed in August 2014, three Brazilian dairy companies started to deliver dairy products to Russia. The new export had to fill a gap all left by the European supplier. Only three companies in September 2014. Year by year we have increased. Now we have 26. As I mentioned above in this period, in these 3 years there were more Brazilian products for dairy export to Russia bringing the total number of eligible plants to 26. Now we have 26 companies eligible to export dairy products to Russia.

DN: What are the names of these three companies that were the first to start their business in Russia?

Antonio: These three companies are: Itambe, Tirolez and Schreiber. We have inspectation by Rosselkhoznadzor.

By the way, Aurora have representant here in Moscow. This company produces meat and dairy products.

DN: How do you think the collaboration between Russia and Brazil will develop in the near future? As you just said in 2014 there were just 3 companies, at the moment there 26 companies. How do you estimated, will there be any development with more companies or the companies that exist would like to export more to Russia?

Antonio: The problem is that Brazil is not self-sufficient in milk. Countries like New Zealand, Ireland they have less population, they have a surplus, extra milk. We don’t have extra yet. This export is a new dairy product, we have experience for a long-long time in corn, in sugar, in soybean. But dairy products are very new.

We try to be self-sufficient, at certain time we started to sell. I think these 26 is the maximum, the most of the other companies sell in the domestic market. Because they don’t have extra milk to export. I think we work here, every month we see it in Brazil documents from companies, meat companies, poultry, pork and beef, they try to sell to Russia. That’s what we have.

I think the conditions are good and this embargo is not our fault but the problem is we don’t have enough to sell. We have to feed the people. But if we have, I think we will have more than 26, because in meat sphere we have more than 60 companies. We have more than 60 companies which sell milk.

DN: If we speak about these 26 companies which are already on the Russian dairy market what kind of marketing tools do they use in order to promote their products for consumers?

Antonio: The main tool is exhibitions like ProdExpo and World Food. APEX Brazil is playing a very important role in this promotion.

Impressive country

DN: What is your first impression of Russia?

Antonio: My assistant Rustam has helped me a lot. I don’t speak Russian, just some basic words. Frequently in my work I use English language. But I spent 4 years in the United Kingdom, I made my PhD there.

These two years in Russia were very pleasant time. I have read a lot about Russian history. It’s a very impressive country, people. I can assure you, you have to go to Brazil we want to see Russians very much. Because we love it here. Before we came here we were worried about cold temperature. Because in Brazil the minimal temperature I found was +19C. I live in the North-East of Brazil. But in the United Kingdom I can find temperature below 0 but my family never.

DN: Your family has never seen snow before, am I right?

Antonio: My kids were delighted. I have a boy and a little girl. They loved the winter and snow. As I said Russians are different than Brazilian people. Russians are very closed in themselves. The Brazilians are more festive, but they are helpful and they are very nice and as I said the country the weather, just put on clothes, convenient clothes, no problem at all. My first impression of Russia was very good, very nice. When I arrived here in the beginning the temperature was very nice, during the feast, it was in spring. It was the first time I worked in Russia, lived in Moscow, travelled: I have been in Sochi, in Saint-Petersburg. I’m very satisfied. I’m going to miss Russia very much when I go back to Brazil.

DN: If we speak about products. Did you see any unique products which you really liked?

Antonio: Vodka is very nice. “Beluga” was very-very nice. Caviar in Brazil is not common, it’s very high in price. But I have experience, not only me but my wife and my kids had very nice experience with “smetana” and soup “borsch”. I have never tasted “smetana” before. But with “borsch” soup it’s nice because it is a little bit sour and spicy.

We don’t have some products in Russia, which we are used to having easily i.e. mango, papaya. They are very cheap in Brazil.

Last weekend we went to Georgian restaurant “Khachapuri”. My family, my kids ate “khachapuri”, “khinkali”. The Georgian restaurant was great. It is different. During period I spent in the United Kingdom there was only fish and chips. That time I was batchelor and do not like much fish and chips.

DN: Why do you prefer to be engaged during your life in agricultural sphere? Why did you choose agricultural sphere?

Antonio: Because I was born in North-East estate. My region is an agricultural region. We don’t have industry there. The most industrial region in Brazil is South-East – there is automobile industry.

My region is an agricultural region. That’s why when I was a little boy I liked to plant, to grow things. When I went to study in Brasilia to University I chose to do agronomy. I am an agronomist. I have a graduation in agronomy. After that I made a master degree in Minas-Gerais in plant diseases. I went to the United Kingdom,  to the highlands but the South is industrial and the North is agricultural. I lived in the North, near Scotland, in the Yorkshire. In the Leeds University I made PhD there in agriculture.

After that I went back to Brazil. I worked in Embrapa in 1979. When I got my graduation I went to Embrapa and Embrapa sent me to do this course. Before I came here I worked with the diseases of fruits, oranges, seed fruits, papaya fruits etc.

I went to the United States, to Hawaii, I spent 1 year in Hawaii to do my post-doctoral. That’s my background that was connected to agriculture. Mainly crops. As I said in the South we have a big company, a lot of bovine herds, cows but in the North-East the number of cows is less. We have more experiments with vegetables. When you go to the University in Brazil you have to choose whether you go to agronomy vegetable department or to the animal department. I went to vegetable cycle.

DN: Thank you very much!